META ADP (Arceus & Dialga & Palkia)

[screams] NO THATS NOT FAIR I'M A SINGLE PRIZER MAIN [screams] F*CK YOU ADP [screams] WHY WON'T ROTATION COME SOOOOONEEEERRR!!!

I actually Hated ADP's guts back in 2019.

Ye jokes aside your explanation on why ranger is **** does make sense, for fast double prize decks it does seem kind of useless, but wouldn't it still be kinda useful in consistent single prizer decks such as Necrozma? I feel like they wouldn't stand a chance at all against ADP without ranger. Or would it not be that strategic just because of how rare ADP is nowadays? 

Also this seems kinda OP actually. Gouging Fire is already strong, And it does synergize with ADP by being a hard hitting consistent striker. Is there a reason you said this isn't stellar? This looks SOO much stronger than Zacian builds imo and Zacian is already a low A tier maybe.

Siegislash lmao love that I can relate. Thats funny

I guess it could cost the entire game for necrozma if this deck is faced, but like you said, ADP is not popular at all rn, and for that reason, even buffing the winrate against other decks by a mere ~2% is worth it. 

When building the deck as I gathered together synergies I slowly started to realize I was kinda wrong by saying ADP is mid. I was thinking of the Zacian build, which is actually kinda mid. Fire is better than Zacian for more than enough reasons to make this deck actually pretty good. 

Please tell others who are using ranger to stop, its slowing their decks for barely any reason. ADP was scary for some time, but right now we can't even squeeze a space for even a single finalist in tournament leaderboards.

I love how Gouging Fire is actually, really, REALLY Good in expanded while mediocre-bad in standard. I'm sure 99% of what causes that is because of Welder, but the idea is there. I was also wondering when you were going to make what is effectively the face of Expanded decks to casuals.

CountyGibbon798 nah bro Fire's pretty good in standard too, people just never hear about any deck thats not META, so there's no difference between rogue decks according to an average person's perception. 

Well... I'd say 30% is because of Welder honestly. Its inferior, Sada's vitality, isn't that much worse. My hypothesis is that the other 70% consists of...

- Its speed is unmatched, which doesn't do much good in standard but is almost a required trait that most decks don't have in expanded.

- Volcanion EX + META control, expanded meta consists of more of 280HP pokemon and single prizers instead of 330HP pokemon and no Volcanion.

- Consistency potential, in standard, the consistency potential is hella low, without mail, without giant hearth(hearth is a big one, welder is only consistent with hearth), and without stone, gouging fire's potential speed is not brought out.

Also wdym by ur last sentence? 

Oh, I meant that most people I talk to who know of Expanded, but don't know the intricacies of it mostly seem to view it as some rotted hellscape overrun by ADP and gimmicky donk decks. I might actually post some of the decks they made to show what an Expanded decklist looks like to them.

Also, I feel that if Gouging Fire was any better in Standard, I'd be seeing it. I think I've played against it a grand total of once, where I ended up stomping it. It probably wasn't a fair matchup anyways since I was playing a water deck, but as you said, turbo decks tend to make a larger impact in the format where it has fewer opponents that can counter it, and more cards to make it possible.

Ah I see what you mean CountyGibbon798 yeah, I think it's your job to inform those people that you talk to that neither ADP nor donk dominate the META, as both have seen decline. (with the exception of alolan raichu combo which I hate with every inch of my being) And let them know that expanded is still a very playable format has much more creative potential than standard.

Most peoples' standard Gouging fire decklists are shitty and slow. Fire profits most off of speed, wiping all basic and most stage 1s, with access to basin and vitality, and valiant to replace Volcanion, the archetype itself is far from mediocre as long as the deck is ran with turbo, which is still possible in standard but with much less consistency. How much you see it doesn't ever completely correspond to competitive potential. Availability, price, convenience, pokemon favoritism, and playstyle are also of matter. 

Also you admittedly said you had the weakness advantage so idk abt that assertion.

Took the words right outta my hands Siegislash, yeah, CountyGibbon798 Siegislash is right about Gouging fire, it is still very good it terms of rogue. One of very few 2 prize decks with 1st turn attack capability, and yeah, ADP and donk have both seen decline, idk if I have seen anyone use ADP since 2023 maybe.

Also thx siegislash for that you prob know more abt standard than I do.